Vision as a Metaphor

[Andrew Judd]

Dear Martin

I was just going thru this article for the zillionth time and once more seeing more and more depth to it.

I was reading this part:

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"The idea is to not feel threatened or intimidated by the environment in which the individual finds him/herself, but rather to focus more and more on letting themselves be themselves, and trusting that when they do what they really want to do, and let themselves be real, something wonderful always happens. And since that process is so important for themselves, to recognize that the same process is important for the people around them, also, that everyone is just getting better and better at being themselves.

From the nearsighted person's point of view, "WE" can really include "YOU" as equal to "I," and in fact, just another "I," just as important." "

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I was wondering if you would consider a suggestion for a small change that from my point of view would make this easier for another person to understand?

In the following:

"And since that process is so important for themselves, to recognize that the same process is important for the people around them, also, that everyone is just getting better and better at being themselves.

From the nearsighted person's point of view, "WE" can really include "YOU" as equal to "I," and in fact, just another "I," just as important." "

From my point of view these two parts dont link together as obviously as you are i think intending them to do.

One possibility is to to remove the comma before also and then to somehow link to the second part of that sentence using a different word to 'also' or to split the sentence into two maybe???. Each time i read this i get confused by the also.

Additionally your meaning here is now clear to me as follows:

"we are all learning and growing and we are all going thru a similar process of becoming better at being ourselves. Therefore in consideration of that, we should be compassionate towards the people around us and their responses to us, and just as we would like others to value us we should also be simultaneously valuing others."

I realise that the final part of the text i have quoted then links to that theme but somehow the idea that another "I" can have equal importance can be a rather difficult concept to understand and yet if it can be seen you have given a good example of exactly what you mean (in the text i am putting forwards for a suggested change to make its meaning clearer) then i think it seems to make this concept clearer, and i am believing better connects the two paragraphs i have quoted.

I suppose also i am wanting to say hello once again and say thanks for a very powerfully insightful document which continues to surprise me with its clearness and insight.

Regards

Andrew

[Martin Brofman]

Hi, Andrew,

This: "And since that process is so important for themselves, to recognize that the same process is important for the people around them, also" is the "good example of exactly what I mean."

When the nearsighted person uses the word, "We," they should have a sense that what the other person wants or feels has the same importance for them as what they want or feel themselves, and therefore, to the nearsighted person, "You" will have the same importance as "I" when they say, "We."

I do not feel it needs to be changed. It does make perfect sense to me, though it might take a while for some nearsighted persons to understand it in the way it was intended.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[Maria]

Ok Martin...help me out here.

I think you are saying that if I am nearsighted, "you" is just as important as "I" when I use the term "we."

If this is a correct interpretation, how does "you" relate to "I" and "we" if I am a normal sighted person?

Peace,

Maria

[Spirit Girl]

HI Andrew

Nice to see you on the board again

This sentence also puzzles me too. I understand that other people are important in their own right and to others. I just don't feel that they are as important to me as I am to myself! On the other hand when I interact with other people who have myopia I do sense that they feel that everything is about them (and not me or others).

Maybe when I rid myself of the thought patterns which result in my myopia I will feel or see this differently.


SG

[Martin Brofman]

Exactly! When a nearsighted person uses the word, "We," the other person is not as important to them as they are to themselves - and this is what needs to change to a more balanced view, where in the "We," "You" is as important as "I."

Marie, when you are nearsighted, "You" is not as important as "I," and you need to create the symptoms of normal vision by balancing out the "I" and "You."

If you do not get it for now, that's all right. It will make sense eventually.

[Andrew99]

mangelea said:

Ok Martin...help me out here.

I think you are saying that if I am nearsighted, "you" is just as important as "I" when I use the term "we."

Hello Spirit Girl:-)

Maria, As Martin has pointed out, the opposite of what you have quoted is true for a nearsighted person. You are quoting what is true for a normal sighted person.

As you know when we have talked about this subject before we tend to get into a situation where you say "but everybody sees things from their own point of view, so why should i be any different?" I think that is kinds sorta what you have said?

Maybe....just maybe....I am now seeing things more clearly and can now have another go at explaining how i understand this situation? So here goes! We can always chat about it privately if you want to follow it up.

If 3 people are looking at an elephant then if one is behind the elephant he sees the rear end......and so forth. Each sees a different view - they all have their own unique point of view.

Nearsighted behaviour is similar to a situation where each of these 3 people is not interested in the other views and keeps insisting that their own view is the most important one..

If you go back to Martins excellent text in Vision as a metaphor, you can see how this habit of taking a personal ego centric view of what is right and what is wrong then tends to create a personal ego centric set of beliefs which are personally important and embedded in the sense of security the person has. The world then tends to be seen this way and indeed to feel secure must be seen this way. However, *reality* intrudes into this distorted view of the world where only ones own view is the allowed view. Indeed, reality which is contrary to our belief system, challenges us in a way we dont understand and creates a feeling of anxiety and a feeling of being insecure about our understanding of the way things work in the world we live. To become nearsighted we *chose* to blind ourselves to the unpleasant anxiety, as an alternative solution to *chosing* to see that our beliefs are in reality based on a limited amount of information. Like the elephant example we have ignored other points of view which would have been very useful to us in order to understand the bigger picture of what actually exists in any given situation. Maybe you can hear yourself in the past protesting that you were right and they were wrong? :-) That is just how it works.

No matter how we express it, fundamentally we decide the other guy is wrong and we are right.

We see more of our "I" view, than we chose to see the other "you" views, and therefore can never see the "we" view, which represents the bigger picture view.

One solution to this problem is to allow the other points of view to be expressed without judgement that they are wrong. But this in itself is enormously challenging because as that view is received the emotional filter creating the distortion will constantly attempt to change what is heard, maybe by interuption, or ignoring it, and usually by receiving something that is simply not really said or implied.......and so forth. However if we can believe that we are altering what we are receiving we can then go back to the view we are receiving and ask that it is reproduced for us to more carefully examine it in a spirit of joyful interest in that point of view *as if it were our own point of view that we want to better articulate and understand*. If we can become interested in the other view point and curious about it and want to learn about it then step by step we can begin to receive it.

How does that sound?

Andrew

[Maria]

Sounds like you've been thinking again

Yes on an intellectual level it makes sense. Guess I'm not getting it on some other level.

You know where to find me

Peace,

Maria

[Maria]

Ok Martin....re-reading all of this I am getting conflicting statements about the whole "we," "you," "I" thing.

First you write: to the nearsighted person, "You" will have the same importance as "I" when they say, "We."

Then you respond to me saying: when you are nearsighted, "You" is not as important as "I," and you need to create the symptoms of normal vision by balancing out the "I" and "You."

Which is it?

Peace,

Maria

[Martin Brofman]

When you are nearsighted, "You" is not as important as "I," and you need to create the symptoms of normal vision by balancing out the "I" and "You."

Thus: To the nearsighted person, TO CORRECT THEIR VISION, they can decide that "You" will have the same importance as "I" when they say, "We."

...and Andrew had the right idea when he said, "One solution to this problem ..." etc.

[Angeleyes]

Hello Martin,
For what it's worth, I have in the past and up until the time of posting this, chosen to be near sighted. I understood your expression correctly in the book, I just didn't like it, because it is true for me and because now that it is written there in black and white I have to admit it. Although I have to admit I've been slow in correcting this trait.
You + I = We
Alice

[Martin Brofman]

Big hug, Alice.

We are I Am.

[Maria]

ok got it....thanks for clearing that up.

Maria

[Gus]

Still a bit confused. Does it follow then that if a person thinks that "you" are more important than "I" ("me"), as in a low self-esteem situation, for instance, then that person will be long-sighted (farsighted)?

I was brought up to feel that I didn't deserve as much as other people and that I shouldn't argue because other people were always right. If that was my belief, then how come I developed short-sight (nearsight) at the age of 12?

And how would you explain the fact that myopia is on the increase? Are people generally becoming more "me" orientated, more ego-centric and self-centered?

[Martin Brofman]

>Does it follow then that if a person thinks that "you" are more important than "I" ("me"), as in a low self-esteem situation, for instance, then that person will be long-sighted (farsighted)?

No - but if someone is farsighted, what someone else wants or feels is more important to them than what they want or feel.

>I was brought up to feel that I didn't deserve as much as other people and that I shouldn't argue because other people were always right. If that was my belief, then how come I developed short-sight (nearsight) at the age of 12?

You would have to look at the situation in your life when you were 12 that you responded to with fear, and hiding something about yourself inside, probably for fear it would be judged.

>And how would you explain the fact that myopia is on the increase? Are people generally becoming more "me" orientated, more ego-centric and self-centered?

More insecure - more fearful.

[Andrew99]

Gus

My two cents here

Gus said:

Still a bit confused. .............snip.....

I was brought up to feel that I didn't deserve as much as other people and that I shouldn't argue because other people were always right. If that was my belief, then how come I developed short-sight (nearsight) at the age of 12?

Maybe you are actually describing the kind of process that leads to astigmatism? Are you astigmatic? In astigmatism you tend to replace your own set of beliefs with the beliefs of others. So in your case if you are astigmatic and based on what you have said above, in situations where you could stand firm and show your personal strength and point of view you are inclined to think badly of yourself rather than feeling proud. From your point of view it might seem like you are considering the "you" before the "I" and it is hard to argue that you are not:-) But if you are myopic then mostly you will tend to be "I" focused to create the point of view that you see or experience.

[/quote]

Gus said:

And how would you explain the fact that myopia is on the increase? Are people generally becoming more "me" orientated, more ego-centric and self-centered?

I think you are really onto something here. Myopia does seem related to the culture we are raised in.

In some western cultures it is now a mandatory requirement, or so it seems, that you think very highly of yourself. But this is kind of opposite of some eastern cultures where humility and community/family service are more highly valued

Have a look at this link.

www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Paries51.html

If a person relies on others to feel good and to get their sense of "rightness" and stength and power then they are vulnerable to the expectations and validation of others. So that is one aspect of this puzzle.

Now have a look at this link and follow it thru to some of the other articles. It clearly addresses your observation about the way society is becoming more "me" orientated and suggests words like "self control", "self awareness' etc are becoming unfashionable.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem